In May of 2022, I had the fantastic opportunity to be a guest on Nathan Chanski’s podcast, “Passion with Purpose.” We talked about sales for over an hour—from my philosophy and approach to sales, to how I prepare for the sales call, even to how I tackle upselling and more. Over the next few months I’ll be posting parts from that conversation that I feel are important to share. 

You can listen to the full podcast here. 

*The dialogue has been edited for clarity and brevity.

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Nathan Chanski: I have a question. 

Ellie McMakin: Sure.

Nathan Chanski: For me, I do try to keep my inquiry forms short, because I always want to make sure that there's zero barriers between them contacting me or not. What if I wanted to put it in a post inquiry questionnaire? Like in a workflow—once you set up your Zoom call with me, it auto responds with a questionnaire, asking you for some more detail so that we come ready to the call. Do you think that would work as well?

Ellie McMakin: I think so, depending on how attentive your audience is. I know for some people they're catering to an audience of very in-demand professionals that have a rigorous work life. I would test both to see what works for you & your audience.

Usually, I'll have people start with a longer inquiry form, and if they're not seeing the results that they want, then doing a post form questionnaire, like you said, would be a great alternative. 

Nathan Chanski: Okay. I didn't really think about the fact that you need that information on them, otherwise you could get bogged down trying to get that information when you're actually on the call, and it almost feels formulaic a little bit. Whereas, if you could come to the call ready, it would be a lot more seamless. 

Ellie McMakin: Absolutely. Exactly, like what you're saying—too often, I would find that the biggest reason why people are having a hard time connecting on the call is because they don't know how to start it. You ask, “How did you get engaged?” And things like that, which are all great questions. 

But they don't speak to what the client is looking to hear. 

And so, collecting as much information before the call, you already start the ground running with that relatability on there. The first few years, I would always start the calls with the small talk stuff. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I just found I close my sales calls much more effectively when I got straight to the point.

There are photographers that find that a little scary, and I completely understand that 100%. Some people really don't love the idea of asking a direct question, but there are always ways of asking questions in a very non-confrontational way, in a way that just reflects caring. 

Nathan Chanski: Plus, when you get to the place where you realize you are running a business and you are selling a product—and hopefully you're very strong in your product—once you get to that place, you have to realize that not getting to the point is actually very awkward for the person that you're selling to.

Ellie McMakin: Absolutely. I love that you said that because I find that there are many photographers that tend to come from having a habit of people pleasing. Myself included, recovering people pleaser over here! That's one of the things I really just want to remind people: that anything that seems scary in terms of directly asking someone or being upfront, please just know there are always ways of being able to explain things without it feeling scary.

Know that, for all of you people pleasers that are just like, “Oh, this feels like a lot.” Please know, no one is going to think ill of you if you just directly say, “Hey, I would just love to know if you have any questions for me before I dive in.” You can always effectively communicate it with your tone in a loving way.

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If you’d like more help with your sales calls, check out my sales training, “Effortless Ethical Sales”—or for even more in-depth guidance, consider my Business Conservatory program, an all-encompassing membership program to help creative business owners level up their business. 

For more from Nathan Chanski, you can follow him on TikTok or on Instagram. 

Stay tuned for more updates from this conversation!

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